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 this health care bill is great

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mopuddin

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PostSubject: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 9:01 pm

for the insurance industry.

fucking had it.

no incentives to lower costs. mandatory enrollment or face fines. what a beautiful gift to the insurance industry. WHERE'S THE FUCKING REFORM. had it.

when people start telling me that i have to buy something or be fined, that is when i vote republican. cya obama. hope you are happy. congress screwed you. one term president all the way.
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jason

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 9:29 pm

Honestly, I'm not surprised.

The whole debate seems like it's just a show at this point.
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 9:42 pm

can't wait for the commercials.

"you have to buy it. buy it from us." - aetna
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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 10:20 pm

you sound like any conservative talk show.

Would you say that Health Care "reform" is Obama's Waterloo?
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 10:52 pm

he has failed to influence these yutz's in anyway whatsoever. this will be his downfall. all democrats are gonna get reamed for this next year. they pass it, they are fucked, they don't pass it they are slightly less fucked. either way they are fucked.

conservatives don't like him cuz he is liberal (and black) and liberals don't like him anymore because of his war stance and now this. and moderates just don't know. he's goin down.
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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 11:20 pm

mopuddin wrote:
for the insurance industry.

fucking had it.

no incentives to lower costs. mandatory enrollment or face fines. what a beautiful gift to the insurance industry. WHERE'S THE FUCKING REFORM. had it.

when people start telling me that i have to buy something or be fined, that is when i vote republican. cya obama. hope you are happy. congress screwed you. one term president all the way.

not that the democrats aren't corrupt and useless all on their own but voting republican? that's just stupid.

besides, its a few "moderate" democrats and all the republicans that are to blame for this fiasco.

I do doubt that any reform may be possible with our current system being so entrenched in corporate cronyism as it is.

In my eyes there would have to be a complete and unilateral shift in how our elections, educational system and our media work in order to enact true reform. we would have to publicly fund all elections and make a federal crime out of receiving outside campaign donations at a minimum. We might have to make some constituitonal amendments or hope for a favorable couple of supreme ct repeals as well. especially in regards to corporate personhood and free speech.

As it is, I hold little hope that we're going to do anything but sink.
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 11:25 pm

i'm hoping for collapse.
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worry

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 11:31 pm

i guess they should kick obama out of congress.
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Richardson

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 11:51 pm

I think we should kick congress out of government.
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 15th 2009, 11:52 pm

kick government out of the u.s.
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Richardson

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 16th 2009, 12:10 am

that's just silly
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worry

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 16th 2009, 12:15 am

what's worse: the status quo, or the presumptive results of this bill?
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Richardson

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 16th 2009, 12:38 am

that depends. perhaps this is better. I don't know as I haven't read and subsequently do not understand it. even if on a side by side comparison, the new bill is better though, a heavily compromised bill could end up acting as a false flag for reform and a referential for those seeking to limit overall long term reform.
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worry

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 16th 2009, 2:29 am

true enough. i just wonder if it's a "false flag" or a "first step" in the long run. or it could have the potential to be either depending on future congressional decisions. of course if reactionaries start tantruming out and voting republican, that would be a disaster for progress no matter the potential for good (NOT NAMING ANY NAMES).
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Chadillac

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 16th 2009, 10:40 am

mopuddin wrote:
kick government out of the u.s.
VOTE REPUBLICAN!
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 16th 2009, 5:09 pm

Richardson wrote:
that's just silly

you're silly, you silly goose.
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PokeItWithStick



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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 16th 2009, 7:20 pm

[quote="mopuddin"]for the insurance industry.

fucking had it.

no incentives to lower costs. mandatory enrollment or face fines. what a beautiful gift to the insurance industry. WHERE'S THE FUCKING REFORM. had it.

when people start telling me that i have to buy something or be fined, that is when i vote republican. cya obama. hope you are happy. congress screwed you. one term president all the way.[/quote]
You fucking dickbag, what did you expect unicorns and candy?
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 16th 2009, 7:26 pm

yes. where's the fucking lollipop factory run by sparkling pixies we were promised?
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 18th 2009, 8:30 pm

oh btw, stocks in health insurance companies would be a good buy right now. that one is a no brainer, cuz of course they are about to get 30 million new customers.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/19532
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worry

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 19th 2009, 12:29 am

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Chadillac

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 19th 2009, 4:13 am

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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 22nd 2009, 7:49 pm

1. The individual mandate forcing all those without coverage to buy
private insurance, with insufficient cost controls on skyrocketing
premiums and other insurance costs.

2. No challenge to insurance company monopolies, especially in the
top 94 metropolitan areas where one or two companies dominate, severely
limiting choice and competition.

3. An affordability mirage. Congressional Budget Office estimates
say a family of four with a household income of $54,000 would be
expected to pay 17 percent of their income, $9,000, on healthcare
exposing too many families to grave financial risk.

4. The excise tax on comprehensive insurance plans which will
encourage employers to reduce benefits, shift more costs to employees,
promote proliferation of high-deductible plans, and lead to more
self-rationing of care and medical bankruptcies, especially as more
plans are subject to the tax every year due to the lack of adequate
price controls. A Towers-Perrin survey in September found 30 percent of
employers said they would reduce employment if their health costs go
up, 86 percent said they'd pass the higher costs to their employees.

5. Major loopholes in the insurance reforms that promise bans on
exclusion for pre-existing conditions, and no cancellations for
sickness. The loopholes include:


* Provisions permitting insurers and companies to more than
double charges to employees who fail "wellness" programs because they
have diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol readings, or other
medical conditions.
* Insurers are permitted to sell policies "across state lines",
exempting patient protections passed in other states. Insurers will
thus set up in the least regulated states in a race to the bottom
threatening public protections won by consumers in various states.
* Insurers can charge four times more based on age plus more for
certain conditions, and continue to use marketing techniques to
cherry-pick healthier, less costly enrollees.
* Insurers may continue to rescind policies for "fraud or intentional
misrepresentation" - the main pretext insurance companies now use to
cancel coverage.

6. Minimal oversight on insurance denials of care; a report by the
California Nurses Association/NNOC in September found that six of
California's largest insurers have rejected more than one-fifth of all
claims since 2002.

7. Inadequate limits on drug prices, especially after Senate
rejection of an amendment, to protect a White House deal with
pharmaceutical giants, allowing pharmacies and wholesalers to import
lower-cost drugs.

8. New burdens for our public safety net. With a shortage of
primary care physicians and a continuing fiscal crisis at the state and
local level, public hospitals and clinics will be a dumping ground for
those the private system doesn't want.

9. Reduced reproductive rights for women.

10. No single standard of care. Our multi-tiered system remains
with access to care still determined by ability to pay. Nothing changes
in basic structure of the system; healthcare remains a privilege, not a
right.
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 22nd 2009, 8:01 pm

IRS Enforced Health Insurance Mandate is the New Debtor’s Prison










I
love the progressive social movement. They are so full of
contradictions and hypocrisy that it would be laughable if it wasn’t so
sad, or so dangerous to our liberty. After all, the irony of the
progressives purporting to care more about the poor, but actually
instituting policies which hurt them is stunning.
If you aggregate all of the concepts that the President and the
Democrat controlled Congress are trying to implement (not to mention
here in Oregon), it amounts to a huge increase in the cost of living,
which disproportionately hurts poor people. Higher fossil fuel prices
because Congress locks up America’s oil, higher overall energy prices
from cap and tax schemes, higher cigarette taxes, alcohol taxes and on
and on. Obviously, these higher prices ripple through the economy
creating inflation that affects every aspect of life making it harder
for the average person to live the American dream, but especially the
poor.
Now add to this absurdity, the idea that Congress would mandate that
each person in America (including illegal aliens) must buy health
insurance, pay new taxes on their health care and if they don’t, the
IRS will fine them up to $25,000 and up to a year in jail and it is
clear what the result would be: the modern version of debtors prison.
The Heritage Foundation has an analysis of the effect of this mandate on lower income and middle income Americans.
So let me get this right: We are going to help those who don’t have
health care because they cant afford it by taxing them up the wazoo for
that very health care? And, if they don’t buy health insurance, then we
are going to turn the limitless power of the IRS against them, fine
them outrageous amounts of money and throw them in prison?
This type of tyranny led to many revolutions in the world’s history,
as people objected to the ruling elites oppressing them with outrageous
taxes and prison time if you couldn’t pay the debt to the government.
If this is actually implemented in the final bill, the revolution in
America will be profound, as it should be. The average American trying
to live the American dream will wake up from their slumber when this
hits them square in the face and will throw out the bums who rammed
this down their throat.
If being progressive means going back to the days of 16th Century England, then count me out.
http://www.americansforprosperity.org/101909-irs-enforced-health-insurance-mandate-new-debtor%E2%80%99s-prison
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 22nd 2009, 8:02 pm

Would a Health Insurance Mandate Help?




By Randall Holcombe on Dec 17, 2009 in Healthcare, Insurance, Personal Liberty


One
of the issues health care reform is grappling with is how to extend
health insurance coverage to the uninsured. At first glance, it would
appear that one way to make sure everyone has health insurance is to
mandate that everyone has to buy it. This article
indicates that about 16.2% of Americans are currently uninsured. But
(I’m not the first one to point this out) every state requires drivers
to have auto insurance, yet this article says that nationwide, 14.6% of drivers are uninsured.
There’s not much difference in the percentage of uninsured motorists
and those who don’t have health insurance. The comparison is slightly
unfair, because all uninsured motorists can afford a car, or at least
afford access to one, whereas the health statistic includes everyone,
regardless of whether they can afford a car or anything else. Is there
any reason to think that a health insurance mandate would be any more
successful than an auto insurance mandate at getting people to buy
insurance?
I am curious, though, as to how violators would be identified, and
how they would be penalized for their violation. A fine would be
levied against the uninsured, but it’s hard to see how one would be
identified as uninsured unless the person needed health care and
couldn’t produce proof of insurance to the doctor or hospital. Do we
bill the person for hospital and physician services, and on top of that
levy the fine? Would health care providers have the responsibility for
turning in violators?
Some uninsured individuals are eligible for programs like Medicaid,
but don’t enroll. When they end up in the hospital, the hospital sees
that they enroll, because then the hospital can get paid. But someone
like this would still be in violation of the mandate, so presumably
would be subject to the fine even if Medicaid paid for the health
care. If the person didn’t pay the fine, would he or she then be
jailed?
Consider a scenario: Joe gets laid off and loses his
employer-provided health insurance. So, Joe looks for another job, and
has a number of promising leads. He’s thinking he should have another
job in a month or so, because he’s got good prospects. But before one
pans out, he’s in an auto accident on the way to a job interview and
ends up in the hospital. Does Joe deserve a fine because he didn’t
line up health insurance before he went looking for another job?
Let’s face it: Many of the 16% of Americans without health insurance
aren’t in the best of financial circumstances, and when one thinks
about the mechanics of identifying them and fining them for being
uninsured, it just doesn’t seem feasible. The government might find a
few relatively well-to-do uninsured and fine them to make an example of
them, but for most uninsured, it’s implausible to think that they
actually will have to pay a fine.
The percentages I cited at the beginning make it appear that a
mandate would have little effect on the actual share of Americans who
have health insurance. But when you think about how the mandate might
actually be enforced, it appears unworkable. In that respect, it’s not
that different from other aspects of the current reform proposals.
SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: "Would a Health Insurance Mandate Help?", url: "http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=4458" });ShareThis













9 Comment(s)






  1. I believe the mandate
    will be fairly effective. It will probably be enforced through the IRS.
    All taxpayers will have to prove they have health insurance. This
    includes illegal aliens and others who, according to the
    administration, will not get the benefit of subsidies. Since one of the
    big purposes of the mandate is to ensure a captive market of customers
    for the insurance industry, I imagine the mandate will be better
    enforced than the auto insurance mandates. I see the individual health
    mandate as, by far, the most horrifying and authoritarian part of
    Obamacare.
    Anthony Gregory | Dec 17, 2009 (5 days ago) | Reply


  2. Furthermore, the penalty
    for not buying the mandate is up to, I believe, five years in prison.
    Poor and young healthy Americans will find a way to pay for the
    mandated insurance, just as they find a way to pay their taxes every
    year.
    Anthony Gregory | Dec 17, 2009 (5 days ago) | Reply
http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=4458
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mopuddin

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PostSubject: Re: this health care bill is great   December 22nd 2009, 8:03 pm

enforcing the mandate:

http://bluecrossfoundation.org/~/media/Files/Policy/Roadmap%20to%20Coverage/051007RTCpbEnforcingMandatesBlumberg.pdf
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